SPEAKER_02 0:00

My name is Pamela Stokes-Eggleston, and welcome to You Good, an engaging podcast that delves into the realm of black wellness. I'm joined by my co-host, Onika Mays, and together we welcome you to the podcast, a space for meaningful conversations, fresh perspectives, a place for us. The You Good Podcast is a love letter to our community and an invitation to connect, share, grow, and heal together. We're glad you're here, and we've got a lot to tell you.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

We're talking self-care, aging, unlearning white supremacy. We're going off on tangents, we circle back and we laugh. It's us getting to know each other, our rhythm, and letting you in on that process. But here's where we're really headed this season. We're bringing in incredible guests to talk about food deserts, plant medicine, the criminalization of mental health, all the things that impact our ability to be good, to care for ourselves and each other. Because, like Audrey Lord said, caring for myself is not self-indulgence. It's an act of self-preservation. And that is an act of political warfare. So grab a snack, something to drink, and get cozy. This is our time. This is you good.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Aging for me is not a bad thing. I think we should talk about that more. And it feels good to age. Like I feel like I'm we're all getting older anyway, right? It feels good to age uh and strive for being as healthy as we can be with folks that we like. Sardet.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah. You know, I feel like what we're also just talking about, which doesn't just happen here in the United States, but everywhere, there's always this attack on the black body. Like physically, spiritually, psychically, like there's just this sort of, you know, what did Jesse Williams say when he was doing his speech? This like mining of black gold, right? Of of who we are. And there's not care. You know, you look at the wellness, the wellness world here, it's it's geared towards a certain person. And when black women, in particular, black trans women stand up and take care of themselves, it's it's a problem, right? Or they're disruptive, or black artists take care of themselves with their music. It's, you know, it's a big deal or or it's an issue to say, like, I'm I'm gonna do this for me. We saw what happened with the election, right? When a lot of black women said, listen, this isn't our fight. There there was such like backlash against black women. Like, why aren't you leading this fight? Why aren't you doing all of these things? When we had a black woman run for president and y'all didn't vote for her, so the ability for us to step back or take a break, or or black folks in general to take a break is just it almost seems like we're not allowed to. And I think, you know, we know where it goes back to. I mean, it goes back to here anyway when we were enslaved.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

That's right. We're just not allowed to be okay. We're not allowed to be okay. Black bodies aren't allowed to rest. That whole diatribe of where's Kamala? I mean, I couldn't, I was like, the damn audacity of it. Kamala isn't resting, or whatever the hell she was doing during that time. She's called Kamala.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

She already ran.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

She already did what she was supposed to do. And she could talk about in the book, and I do have her book, and she talks about the campaign, and you know, hindsight is 2020. However, during that time, where the hell were all these, where were you? Where were you during that time when it was critical and she was running? And then you're like, where's Kumala? Where's Michelle Obama? Michelle didn't have nothing to do with it. She didn't have anything to do, you know. Why aren't you asking? So it's like always policing. Like, I feel like that's black bodies, we always have to be somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

That's the first, yeah. I think that's what we're talking about. Like, and I think that's that's why we wanted to do this. Like, because people aren't allowed to people, society doesn't ask black folks, like, are you good? Like, are you okay? It's always, what more can you be providing for us? Why aren't you doing something? Or we're going to treat you as a monolith and hold you accountable for something. But it's never just, are you okay? And it's just so funny because in our society today, there's such a focus on wellness. There's this whole thing about wellness, but it doesn't seem to include us.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

It doesn't include us in the way that they need to be talking to us. Well, absolutely absolutely include us in the way like this whole, oh, go get some green juice or get some collagen so you can look better. Like, that's not what we're talking about. You know what I mean? Like that is not what we're talking about is when you or the collective, I'll say you being the collective, got upset because black people said, we're gonna sit this one out, particularly black women. When the shit hit the fan, when we were sipping our tea and everybody was, oh, we need all hands on deck. We are saying we are tired. We always have our hands on deck, we always show up to the elections, we always show up to the rallies, we always show up to the church functions, we always show up to the marches, we always show up to the to the community meetings where politicians are we are we always do this. And at the beginning of this year, at the top of this year, we said, you know, the hell with it. And and in that, all that discourse, nobody said, Are you okay?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Are you okay? Like, when was the last time somebody who wasn't black really asked you, are you okay? You know, either individually or societally. Like it just isn't something that happens. We ask each other if we're okay. We check in, but it's not a question.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

People were checking on me during George Floyd, and there were murders of black people prior to that and after that. But George Floyd had people in New Zealand in the streets. And so I think that mobilization behind that, that energy behind it, the bigness of that made people feel maybe more inclined to check in and see, you know, how you are doing. Because I do remember people checking in on that. Now, perhaps because I work at a uh a retreat center, I had people ask, you know, check in on me, you know, more. And I remember um telling someone that my father had said a couple years ago, and this was a few years ago, and I don't know if this was before when 45 was in office. So so not now. And he was saying, you know, my dad lived through Jim Crow, and he was saying how he never thought he would see the likes of us kind of creep creeping back to that. I was saying to this person, my heart broke when he said it. Like my heart because I because first of all, it's true. And and that made me sad for him and just in general. And so when 47 happened, this person checked in on me. Okay, because they had remembered that conversation. Yep. And I'm not gonna ever forget that because it doesn't happen that much. Right. Um, you know, people generally say, How are you okay with you know your work or planning this over here or whatever? You're talking about the big are you?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, are you okay? Yeah. The way that you and I talk. Like we talk and check in. Right. And, you know, I have other friends who are black and brown who I talk with and check in, but we do this because it's part of our lived experience and it's just who we are. It's like the George Floyd happens, and for a while people thought about what was happening with with black bodies in the United States, and then they just all stopped. And it didn't only it didn't become a point of conversation until people wanted to know why we weren't doing anything about what's happening in the world, you know. And instead of asking, are y'all okay? Are you are y'all okay?

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah. Can I can is there anything I can do to help?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Is you know, that wasn't being asked. And I and yeah, and I think that's uh I'm just reflecting now the fact that it's it's been since George George Floyd that I've really had any serious conversations.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

That's kind of shocking because, you know, that was well because you know, because because of the situation we're in now, and that's really that's unfortunate. I it's unfortunate and I'm not surprised. So but it's unfortunate, especially in these current times that we live in.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Mm-hmm.

unknown 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

It's off the expectation of how how we're showing up. Well, let me ask you, how are you today? You good? I'm good today. I'm good on a on a scale of one to ten. I am an eight, so we're we're doing okay. I have my tea, you know. I'm I'm doing okay. Are you good? I am.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I I am good. I think uh I'm ti' tired. I haven't been sleeping very well. And when we figure out what we're gonna talk about, I think I'll talk about that a little bit more. But I I am good. I'm happy in my life right now. I feel satisfied. You know, I have my book coming out, and I'm writing. My relationship feels solid. Yeah, so I do feel good. Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Now, do you think um because it was a full moon last night and I didn't sleep that well either. However, you and I are at a certain age where we're not sleeping eight, nine hours I did want to preface by saying often during a full moon, because I talked to my other friends and and there are some ruminations around this that we don't get the sleep that we need to get during a full moon during during this time.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I think that's definitely true. And I knew there was a full moon last night. I actually meant to charge some stuff and I didn't put it on my own charge. I completely forgot I'll have to wait. Yeah. But before I get into that, I I think we should let listeners know like who we are, why we're even chatting right now, what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

This is true.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And why we're even talking about being good and taking care of ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Some of the issues we already brought up. How when's the last time somebody in the in a in a grander scheme of things asked us how we were doing? But we ask us, we, us, ask us how we're doing often, and what does that look like? And how can we grow or cultivate that energy as it relates to to black people? That to me is one of the tenets of why we're even creating this podcast, why we're why we're doing this work is because you and I have had so many conversations, and I'm so glad that we're finally kicking this off. You know, like, but you and I have had so many conversations around how are you feeling today? What would bring you joy in this moment? What is aggravating you or is a challenge to you in this moment? And fleshing that out and fleshing it out in a space of safety and bravery where other melanated people can have those conversations, right? That to me is important. If somebody that I don't feel comfortable with asks me, you good, what what's my answer gonna be? Do I because I'm thinking, do I feel safe? I'm looking at, I'm checking in on my spidey sense, you know, to even share that with this person. Can I even give them a real answer? Right. You know what I mean? Am I giving a real answer? But might be like, let me just say I'm fine. Fine. Once we often, I'm fine. I'm all right, I'm fine. I'm because you don't want to tell the people, do you feel safe? One, do you even feel like going down this rabbit hole of talking to this person? Because you know or you believe that this person wouldn't even have a uh you know, a clue.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And why they're asking. What is even the reason?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

About what they're asking.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

And are they asking if you're okay for something? Are they just asking if they're you're okay? Because that can also be a part of, I think things become really loaded when we're even asking each other, you know, how are you today? I I feel like that's been really loaded. And one of the reasons I'm really glad that we're doing this, this podcast, this media project, building this community around, you know, melanated folks, the global majority being good is because it's not something that I think it comes up in conversation. I think there's a lot more conversations around black folks taking care of themselves, but being able to maybe name some of the things that we're already doing as taking care of ourselves. I I think we've gotten, I won't let me let me speak for myself. I think for a long time I was distant from ancestral practices or even acknowledging practices that I grew up with that were ways that I was taking care of myself and didn't realize I was taking care of myself. So sometimes it's that reminding and that remembering that we are already doing some things to let us know that we're okay. Um, and I want to be able to talk about that. I think that's something that I really do want to talk about because I think more folks might be taking care of themselves in ways that they might not just acknowledge are actually, you know, healing practices or care practices.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Sure. I agree. I think it took me a while to come to some of the ancestral practices that you and I have had conversations about. And once I opened the door, got some books, educated myself, it was amazing how many different things lined up to help me along that path. I never had an issue of I am, you know, I'm a follower of Jesus, or I'm a follower, or I'm a follower of this, and this is separate. This ancestor veneration thing is separate. Which like really it's not in every almost every black household. What you got on the on top of the mantle or something, you got your grandmother, you got something like your grandmother, if you got pictures, that's ancestor veneration. Yep. And so the language, I believe, around or the the I'll say the miseducation, the the not knowing, the ignorance around people, and some of this is in our community, our church folks saying, well, this is it's demonic. Mm-hmm. This is demonic for me to connect with my grandmother who came into my dreams, who came to my dreams, Onika, just to go. You're saying, and I'm like, let me pay attention, right? It's demonic for me to have a yoga practice, to have a meditation practice. That's demonic. It's demonic for me to find these different tools of wellness for this particular black body, right? I can't, like you said, I can only speak for myself. But we deserve options and we deserve different pathways. And also multiple things can be true.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

What I think is demonic is that people have been so colonized over generations through Christianity that even the mere mention of connecting with your ancestors and your homeland and practices that were done there as being demonic, that is what I think is demonic. The fact that you can't even recognize that practicing and talking to your ancestors and people have passed and your idea of Christianity isn't even yours. That wasn't your religion. It was beaten into us. And that's what I find demonic, that you'd rather hold on to that than to actually wonder what could it be, who am I, right? Not just who am I now, but who was I? And what was taken away from me from generations and generations and generations, and what would it look like to connect with that? And I'm not even talking about ceremony or practice or or talking to my altar. I'm even just talking about the idea of laughing and gathering together, is connected to practices that we had before. And that whole idea of just gathering, of sharing, laughing, dancing, that that's practice. And we should be even acknowledging that as such. But we we want to write things off, or we've become so disconnected from all of that, or or told that it's nonsense, or told that it doesn't matter, that that we that we don't allow ourselves to embrace those things, or we think it only has to look a certain way, that it's only in church, or it's only with white Jesus, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah, the white Jesus got people in the chokehold. The whole real chokehold got them on the wall. You know, I'm like, we all know that man was brown, or if if if historically, and you know, it it's it's sad to me. Those are the people that are saying things are demonic. Like you want to hold on to this because you have dedicated your whole life to this notion, this thing that that has been beat into you uh via colonization. And so you don't want to unlearn some stuff because I think the unlearning is so hard for people. It's so it's difficult, period, right? But it's so hard. The unlearning is so hard. And people have the blinders up. I've been received, I've learned this, I've learned how to deal with with these people a certain way. And and so that's where the inflexibility and the rigidity comes in.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

You know, I think there's no freedom.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

There's no freedom in that. There's no freedom, there's no liberation forward forward in in that when you when you're stuck there. Like you can't talk about liberation and and not want to unlearn what you've been indoctrinated by. You can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Unlearning for me was scary when I first started to do it, you know, because it's a never-ending thing. I find that I'm I'm unlearning things all the time. But when I first acknowledged that that's what I was doing, it was scary for me because I didn't know who I would be once I let some of the things that I was holding on to so tightly go. Um, you know, I I even I think I talk about this in my book, but when I first kind of was introduced to meta meditation, and I thought the idea of wishing happiness for people who I didn't like was stupid. I was like, why am I gonna wish happiness for people who hurt me? Like, no, that's just dumb. Why the hell would I do that? And and then when I really started to investigate the practice, and I was like, what I'm really letting go of is my relationship to white supremacy. And I'm always used to fighting against something. And who would I be if I allowed myself not to fight? Like that empty space of who I would be was terrifying. And that's why I used to be afraid of unlearning, because it was like I'd rather hold on to something that is hurting me and uncomfortable because it's a suffering I understood, rather than let go and look at that empty space and wonder what's going to be there. That that that and it still makes me afraid, but I just do it now because I have a practice, right? And I think that's an important thing that I want to, you know, I want to talk to other other black folks about. Like how do they deal with their unlearning and what does it look like for them? Like I know there's so many topics and episodes that we're gonna have that that talk about lots of different ways to heal, but the unlearning piece is is such a big part of what we need to do and why, and we're so resistant.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yes, yes. As as a culture, as a people, we're we're resistant. I think there's been movement in the direction as it relates to to liberatory practices, like, like, you know, I think that that movement is it seems to me though it's slow, and it just could be my own, you know, perception of how things are going as it relates to the world crumbling around us at this moment. For me, that could be move a little quicker for for us melanated folks. But I I believe, I mean, isn't the unlearning has been scary for me too. You know, I think it's scary overall, but I also believe that black women in general, I could be wrong here, but black women in general practice unlearning more than everybody else. We we because the unlearning is let me take the blinders off, let me lift the veil. Right. And see what they mean. Right. And maybe they can change my mind. And often my mind does change. That's that's the thing. Right. So it's really getting in front of that indoctrination. I think as black women, we've had to do that in in many spaces that we didn't want to be in, but to just get through some of the things that we've had to do in our daily lives. So I think we are the most malleable and flexible in that way.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Absolutely. You forwarded to me a few days ago um an IG video of a guy who said, Here's my impression of a black woman getting hurt, and she bumps her, she he's like walking along and then he bumps his elbow. And she's like, Ow, I think I'm gonna go to medical school now. Right?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

That was hilarious because that's the kind of stuff we do. I know when I went back to listen, when I went back to grad school, it was that I was like, this I feel stagnant in my career. Let me go back to grad school. That's what I did.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Okay. I took a therapeutic yoga teacher training. I became a massage therapist, I did trauma-informed training, Reiki. I did my Reiki certification. I just went on and on and on. And I think part of it is because that's how we're programmed. We're programmed to overachieve. And then I've I've been thinking about that, right? Because I was really watching those videos, and at first I was like, ha ha, that is so us. And then I was like, this is also a product of. Of colonization and the fact that we have a history of being enslaved, that there's this need to overperform and over-educate. And it is such a part of our DNA because we were responsible for holding communities together that we have in our DNA just to overachieve. And so I was laughing, and then I was like, oh, this is sad. This maybe isn't a great thing. You know? And I went down a rabbit hole thinking about that because I remember when I did my, I did a meditation, when I did my meditation teacher training, a friend of mine who was white and cis male, we were talking about, you know, some issues that we had with the training. And uh I was talking about another training that I was thinking about taking. And he said, When is it gonna be enough? Right. My back got up because I was like, what do you mean? He said, How many trainings do you think you're gonna need before you know that you could actually lead this 200-hour training yourself? I'll take a sip of tea on that. I wanted to slap him in the face. I know. And he was right. I I was insecure because I always feel like I have to I have to know everything before I can say I'm qualified. Like it took me so long to own the fact that, you know, I was a mindfulness teacher or a yoga teacher, and I thought I needed all these credentials behind me to feel good enough to sit at a table. It was a real, it was a I'll never forget we were like it hit me so hard. We were sitting at a table outside having lunch, and I was so pissed. I was like really angry, like I was angry. And I remember trying to like laugh it off, but it I stewed because I was like, what, he doesn't think I'm this like I put this whole thing on him that wasn't about him at all. It was about me. He raised a really valid point.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

How many trainings? How many different degrees do you need? How many, you know, and that is a part of colonization. Yeah. Because what we see is most recently the stripping of whatever degrees are deemed professional. Mm-hmm. Many of us, black women, are in said those areas. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

That's thing has my back.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Correct, right? It is, and they know this, so they know this about it. So mm-hmm. It's insidious. And also, I get what you're saying. Like, I laughed at the video too, which is why I sent it to you. Because it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It was hilarious, because it's true. Like also, like we that's what we do.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

We have to look at ourselves and say, okay, what how many what's enough? You know? I mean, I have friends that are like, how many degrees do you need? But if somebody asked you if you would go to get a uh a doctorate in business, you know, would you do it? And I said, if somebody paid and if I could go, because I would do it, because that's crazy, because I want to keep learning. Part of it is I do want to keep learning, but also like, why, why though? You know, you you're you have enough, you have all the tools. And here's a kicker for melanated folks, we had the tools. We come in with half of the tools because it's in our DNA. Yep. That's a whole ass colonization, whole ass, you know, flip of the let me make these people think that they're not enough. And we they know we're enough. So when are we gonna get to the point that that they know they know so much that we're enough that they have to actively try to thwart against it? And I just last bit of, you know, like getting calling these certain professions not per professional and things. They specifically thwart that because they know. So it's like, when are we gonna know? Right. And that's really part of our healing, that's part of our wellness, is is is how how are we gonna get good with where we are currently.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And stop seeking, it comes from this place of seeking validation, right? Like unconsciously, it's not a conscious thing, but it's I I think it's an ancestral wound, really, that that needs to be healed collectively and then perhaps, you know, individually based on, you know, your lineage or whatever. But it's this this need that, you know, it's it's it's this white gaze and knowing that we have to navigate it and you know, but that we have to move within it being seen as being validated. But I think one of the things that I also want to talk about, you know, in our podcast is how do we let go of that need to be validated? And and just saying, like, I I don't, I don't need that validation. And sure, I might have to navigate it professionally, but I don't, I don't need it. And that's another place of unlearning for me. How can I unhook? Right. And another place that comes up, and and I can't take credit for this, but I can't remember the person who initially talked about it, was about around black folks and aging, the whole like black dope crack thing, and how you know we look younger than we really are, and all these things, and and we take pride in it. And it's I mean, it's true, but it's against, it's in relationship to whiteness. We look better than X. It's always in relationship to something against or in relationship. In relationship, we look better than them. We are just better than them. It's always because we have been surrounded, and and people aren't gonna want to hear that, right? Especially, no, we're just talking about how we look good. Yes, and acknowledge the fact that you're saying that because we were forced to embrace so many things about ourselves in this way that was in relationship to being told that we weren't enough. And yes, eventually we unlearn it. And can't it can't just be about loving who we are because we're amazing and we are amazing, but you have to go through that maze of unhooking and unlike attaching yourself to the gaze of whiteness. And you have to admit that it's there, right? Like I think that's the first thing, and and in in getting good and being whole and being well and healing is acknowledging that you aren't. And maybe are there are some places that you need to that you need to look at, and it requires sadness and grieving.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

It does, because that's that's that's a big unlearning curve.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

I still do it, right? Right like a lot of you're 54, you don't look 54, and uh that secret pride that I get from that, but why? Why is I should be glad that I look 54. I made it, I made it this far.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Listen, that's right. That's right. We we got to the point, and that's a whole that's a conversation that's a that is definitely a conversation we should actually.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

That's a conversation we should have.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Aging and and black don't crack and in that discussion is so deep and it's embedded in how we move often. So, like you're saying, it's always got to be in opposition to or in spite of or whatever. It can't be, we are in our own lane, we are doing this, and it is the society's set up that way.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

And we pretend it's not, though. And that's where I think, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

No, we can't escape it. You know why?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

But so many people do pretend though that it that it's not. I think you know, if you would talk to you talk to some people about black don't crack and you told them that it was rooted in white supremacy, they would push back. I bet you there would be a lot of people who would push back and say, that's not true, or we're always well dressed and we have a sense of style. That sense of style and being well dressed also came out of the fact that we were dehumanized and we always had to look good no matter where we were. We always had to.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Always had to look good, always had to be clean, always have our hair. We can get into hair conversations of why some people are still talking about natural hair is not appropriate. Appropriate or professional or yep. No, so all of that stuff is steeped in whiteness and the white gaze. You don't understand. No, I just like my hair this way. They're still having conversations about that. I'm like, you hate it.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

It's easier, it's easier to manage this way. It's easier.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Taught you that I'm, you know, I didn't, that's a Malcolm X uh quote, but I mean, who taught you to hate yourself? Mm-hmm. And do you want to unlearn it? Now, some people we can take along for the ride. Some people we can't, because they're gonna be I'm not dragging anybody. We're not dragging anybody along with us on this podcast. Yes. We're not gonna drag you. There is no drag. But if you are here because you really want to do some conscious unlearning, because you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, then you know, join us in these conversations because that's that's where the real the real healing begins. That's where we can really begin to ask, are you good? Are you doing okay? And have a free-flowing conversation in spite of the fear of what that space you said in between of the unlearning and and where you were going to on the other side. In spite of the anxiety around that, in spite of, because I had it too. I was like, how many people am I gonna have to leave behind? How many people have you left behind? I mean, how many people have I left behind? How many people have left me behind because of the unlearning? Yep. Right? It's scary because it's people that are can be near and dear to your heart. You're like, wait, it could be family members, like it could be a lot of people out here struggling. And what I like about these conversations is that it has to happen for our that is the human evolution. Yeah. And we more than anybody knows that. So I think we need to step into that power and step into what that means for us. In spite and it's and through the fear, it's okay to be scared. You know, people talk about, you know, we all have this. Well, I don't have any fear. I'll be damned. I mean, when my husband was in Iraq and people were like, he said they were around people. I'm not scared. He said, if you're not, what's wrong with you? If you're walking around, if you're not, if you don't have some semblance of fear in the midst of this mess, then what is wrong with you? Yeah. Because that's natural. So it the question becomes how you show up to the edge of that fear and then how you walk through it. That that like say that. Now if you let that fear, you know, paralyze you, that's a that's a whole nother conversation into doing what you need to do. But if the fear energizes you in the same way anger, I think, uh, can in can can be um moved and and and and changed and mutated into something positive as it relates to moving forward, then what are you doing? Are you always raging, just raging?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Absolutely. And I think as a community, we spiritually bypass more than than we admit. You know, when we say things like, I'm not afraid, and and it comes up a lot, like this reluctance to say that you're afraid or nervous or or insecure. Like, you know, before I before I teach, before I s go out and speak, before I do anything, I feel nerves. And it's natural. Good, natural nerves. If I'm not nervous or afraid, I'm not doing something right. And I'm probably gonna flop if I'm not feeling, you know, that's like engagement with life, right? It's engagement with your surroundings. And I think as you're, especially in a society that has taught us that there's that, especially black folks aren't allowed to have emotions individually and collectively. It always has to be this one, this one big emotion that we're all supposed to have. Um, and this one big responsibility that we're responsible for each other, that we're accountable, and and that we hold everything for every single black person, but we're not allowed to have like individual feelings. Um and I think that's why there's always this shell, because there's such a weight. There's always been this weight that we're carrying so much. And so to admit that you're afraid, you know, is to be to think that you're gonna get killed or die, right? I mean, if you if you really want to break it down to where it goes back to, it's it's fear of death going back to, you know, when we were enslaved. But folks, I I think some folks are definitely ready for those conversations. I think you, you know, we're hearing that in some places, but I think there are, like you said, there are a lot of folks who who aren't gonna come along for the ride, and and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's fine. I think, you know, we don't want to, this is organic. We don't want to be dragging anybody, you know, we don't want to force anybody. But if you are curious, if you're interested, we are in that energy of we can take the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink. Right. Right. In that energy of we will take the veil off and illuminate some things. Yeah. You know, be vulnerable and be our as well. Yeah. As as we go through our own uh voyages in this space of what does that look like? You know, I may come on this podcast one day and be like, you know, when you ask me how I'm doing, are you good? You good? And I'm like, it's a five today. You know, five today because this is what this is what happened, this is what I'm dealing with, you know. I and and and and to be candid in in in that, I think, I think we need so much of that in the in the black community. We don't mean we don't I feel like the usual sort of pontifications of Jesus will work it out if you let him, like we know that. Jesus also wants you to be flipping tables over because that's that's what he did. Jesus also wants you to empower help the help help the prostitute, help the whatever, help people who aren't like you. Jesus also wants you to step into your own power because as much as people don't know what, oh, he was doing this, he was doing miracles. Yeah, he had gifts that a lot of us have. Yep. That we're sitting on because we were told he was the only person that could have those gifts.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

And we were told that for a reason. We were told that only one person could have it, right? Right. Like told that that it wasn't accessible to us. And I and I think that's that's so important that that getting well and healing requires action on your part. It is not an external activity, it is not over there. Um, yeah, you may gather over there with people, but the act of, you know, embracing who you are and healing and unlearning can only be done, you know, inside with fingers pointing to yourself. Because that's that's where it starts. And I think with, you know, the history that we have here in the United States, that that is a big reason that Christianity was so big, that salvation was out there. It was over there. There was no sense of empowerment. Because if there was a stronger sense of empowerment that we could be well and that a God also resides inside us, that's empowering. And then you start to question your surroundings, right? You start to say, like, this doesn't make any sense, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's the natural evolution if you are willing to go down that path. And, you know, I've just in my own healing journey, and you and I have talked about it, where I'm like, well, I'm gonna be plant-based. Mm-hmm. And I said, I'm gonna be plant-based for health reasons, you know, and I say plant-based and not vegan because I don't want the vegan police to come for me when I say I have leather boots and you know for me, and I love animals, but I didn't do it for the animals. And it was because I had some health issues and I healed myself through diet. I didn't tell anybody else. I didn't tell my men, I didn't tell my family, I didn't tell my friends. They had to do the same thing. If people come to me asking me questions, I will give you some tips, you know, based on what I know. Um, but and yes, I have a certification in plant-based nutrition because we all want, we all need all the certifications. Okay, it's crazy. It's crazy. Like I isn't hilarious because I was like, oh, I did this, let me go get educated.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

You know, like that is too funny.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

But it's amazing how many people get around me and they were like, I could never do it. And I'm looking around like I didn't say shit to you about changing. Who asked you to? Yeah. I didn't ask you to, and it's always, oh, well, you look good. It's your skin, it must be doing. I'm like, okay, I I didn't do it to look good. You know, this is this is why I did it. It worked for me. It took about a year, and I don't want to stop. And I have whatever blood type that I'm okay with, you know, eating some plants, eating kale, you know. But it's amazing how like people's, you know, the way that you show up in the world, and that's just one example, right? Because it could, we we could go down our spiritual paths. I have so many other stories that we'll share in in later podcasts, but where people are coming up against their own unlearning edges based on how you show up. Based on how you show up. And you haven't said a damn thing to anybody about you could do this because I did it.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

It's just how you're moving. Yeah, that's I like to teach from a place of I, you know, like I'm rooted in teachings. If I, you know, if I if I'm teaching about, you know, a Buddhist concept or something, uh a yoga concept, you know, I'm rooted in teachings where I learn from, but I I teach from an I place because, you know, this may not work for you, right? Like even the Buddha said when it comes to like investigation, right? He said, come and see, right? He said, come and see for yourself. Because don't take my word for it. Like, you gotta test this out for yourself. I said, this is what I did. Now you come and see was such a big part of studying, you know, all of the things that he talked about. Test it out for yourself. And I think that's sometimes why I have such a problem with a lot of the Buddhist communities and and traditions, because they're so sure that their lineage and tradition is is the right one. When when he didn't he didn't have that. It's just like with Jesus, right? Like all of these varying, you know, aspects of Christianity that that none of that existed when Jesus was around. None of these existed when the Buddha was around. There was the Eightfold Path, there was talking about the nature of suffering, and and not that you have to do it this way and recognize these aspects. And I think when it comes to unlearning, I have to distance myself so I can investigate kind of on my own. Because, you know, I think I went through a period where I started questioning everything and not trusting anything, and that's no way to be either. Like there needs to be, you know, a balance between when you're unlearning something and then sort of reintegrating and and learning, you know, a new way forward. To try to remain open and curious. But for a while I I was distrustful as I was unlearning, and I I needed to unlearn that.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Yeah, that there's yeah, learning has nuances and layers to it. It's not just the one thing, it could be multiple things simultaneously, you know, you how you're showing up to the energy of that, plus the thing unlearn. Um, you know, and often they coincide or or, you know, clash. And I think for us, or for me anyway, that's a practice. So in my own contemplative practice of pranayam or or any type of somatic movement is being open to that. Like how it's really about curiosity too. You know, the unlearning that makes the the unlearn that makes it land softer, I think. Being inquisitive about what if, you know, and then and then and then seeing how that lands in my body, you know, because so often I think we we're like, I need to do this, but here's the change that I need to right. And I and I think it it's like how am I showing up in the midst of this thing that I need to change? What what are what are the ruminations around or the history or the beliefs I had from the past that are now being illuminated? And and just staying on you know on top of that, just staying curious about that. I do believe that that's the way forward. I think for me, that feels better for me. I think, you know, folks like your yourself and others in in in in this community kind of move in that way at our at our right. So that that's that's the exploration. That's the exploration. And and to be open all while being living in this today's society, living doing all of that important work and important exploratory movement in in the space of we're we're in this time we're in these times that are hard, very, very hard. And we need to acknowledge that. Like I I I think we can find joy in this stuff, but also it, you know, shit's hard. Yeah. And it's to say that this there is this there's shit in the game. It's hard. I'm, you know, exhausted. Every time I turn the news on, it's something else, it's this, it's that. And I am tired. And I sometimes want to just pull the covers over my head and be like, just bury it, just I don't want to do anything. And to not acknowledge that feeling and to sit in it, but not to wallow in it. That's the that's the balance of that's the balance. You know, I'm gonna sit in it, I want to feel the feelings, but I can't wallow, I can't be here for three days, right? Because I can't, and because also my personality is such that I'm gonna be like, well, what can I do to help, excuse me, lessen some of this, lessen, decrease some of this, this energy, this, this sort of energy that's horrible and and bad for us.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Unhealthy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

I think being tired and saying that you're tired is so important. I mean, we started our conversation almost an hour ago talking about, you know, the fact that we we felt okay, but that we were both tired. And and part of it is, you know, because we've both been talking about to each other outside of this, you know, going through menopause and what that's like. I don't sleep the same way. But part of it is is also I worry about what's happening in the world.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Um, even I think it's always just of running track in the in the back of my My head, in addition to everything else that I have going on in my life.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

In addition to being in this body, in addition to thinking about, you know, I worry about Luca, you know, my nephew, who's, you know, a young black boy. I I worry about like what's life gonna be like for him, you know. Think, you know, I think about all that stuff. I think about my brother, you know who's who's you know, black and a man and and what that's like for him. So being tired is I think to be expected, and being able to say that and not and even if you do feel guilty about it, being okay with the fact that you feel guilty about it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah, I I yeah. So you can have those multiple experiences, those multiple emotions, and say, I'm tired, I feel guilty about saying it, and also it's okay. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

That's that's what practice has given me the ability to hold complexity inside myself and not be at war with it anymore. I think I always recognized the complexity, but I was always at war with a part of it, you know. Either I I wanted to be happy or I was like okay being sucked up in the rage, but didn't realize that it could all exist. And when I when I got a serious contemplative practice saying, like, oh, this is all allowed, it you know, from second to second. Happy, sad, angry, disappointed, all of it. That's what I I hope that people bring to our conversations as well. The messiness of it all.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Um it's organized, it's messy, it's chaotic at times. That's okay. That's that's how it is. What matters is how we show up in the midst of that. What matters but how we react to that. And what what and and then the in the reaction, what toll that takes on our bodies. So are you holding it in? So you know how people so-and-so, we've you ever met these people that they these couples that say they never argue? Yeah. Who are these people?

SPEAKER_01 46:07

I don't know who they are because it's not me and my partner. On that note, I woke up last night, three o'clock in the morning, flipped at Andrea, and I was like, I just had a dream you broke up with me.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

And Andre was like, Why did you wake me up for that shit?

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Like, why did you wake me up? I was like, You broke up with me because you said that I was cheating on you. And I was mad. I was so mad, Pam. I was legit mad with you. I woke up mad. I woke up mad. She's like, Why are you mad? It was hilarious. I was mad. I was ready to start a fight. I was asleep at three o'clock in the morning because of a dream that I had that she broke up with. She was being so irrational. It still makes me mad thinking about it. I'm laughing at you. She was being so irrational. And it was a dream. Anyway, so yeah, I don't get I don't get people who don't argue because I can get mad at my partner in my sleep.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Just you just know, just random stuff. Random. Just random. And then here's the kicker is why was I mad at him blessing? And I don't even remember. The next day, I don't even remember. I don't know what. I mean, but the you know, these people that don't that don't have arguments, I'm like, you're holding that stuff in. And then three years later, you're like, I'm in the hospital for some heart pain so whatever. You, I'm not saying you always like at love or whatever, but it's like there is a way to process anger, to process fear, to process these emotions, but you don't sit on them. No, you know, people have have in our community have sat on stuff because of respectability politics. Because of respect, can't be, I have to sit on it, I have to, you know, black dandyism came out of, you know, some of some of that, even though we fli, even though we're fly. But, you know, it's like we had to dress a certain way, look a certain way. I can't show too much emotion. I gotta walk on one side of the sidewalk. Let me tell you something. And people are still doing that. I'm like, I keep walking. Let me tell you what. Let me tell you what I'm not doing. And I have been guilty of doing, you know, in my 20s. I'm in my 50s now. In my 20s, oh, I see somebody. I will, I was like, I ain't moving for no, I'm not code switching anymore.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

I did it. I'm not even gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I'm not doing that shit anymore. You understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Mm-hmm. That's a whole that's a whole unlearning right there that I don't think a lot of people are ready for yet. Right. Only in, you know, the and that it has to be ongoing. That this isn't like a one and done thing. Like the unlearning is ongoing and it's in fits and starts, and it's like two steps forward, one step back, one step forward, two steps back, eight steps back, a half a step forward.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Yeah. It's it's a jagged, it's a jagged voyage. It's like a car stopping and starting. Yeah. It's incredible, but it's also freeing if you can move through the muck. Yeah. If you can remain curious, and if you really give a damn about yourself, about your black self, about your melaninated. So if you really care, and if you want to care for others around you, your kids, your loved ones, if you you'll you'll be willing to do it. You no matter how hard it is, no matter how difficult it is. And no matter how long it takes you. I think people feel like they have to arrive after three years. You know, as a yoga teacher, when you've got your 200 hour, you want to share that with everybody. Everybody.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

I was so annoying.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Everybody, look at what I learned. It's so mystical because my body feels so great, and you will feel great too. If people don't want to hear people don't care, they don't care. I don't think that it's what's predicted.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

They do not. I just did a Dharma talk about that where I was talking about how insufferable I was when I first started practicing yoga and meditation, telling everybody they had to do it. It was the greatest thing. Oh my God. I was mis I I have to like apologize to everybody who still, you know, rocks with me that I am sorry because I was insufferable, insufferable. I'm insufferable for different reasons now, but for that, I mean, it was oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I I just I wasn't that bad, but I remember everybody doing it. Like and then then your then your circle, you're like, ooh, uh this yoga teacher and that yoga teacher. And then when you met black yoga teachers, it was like a family reunion. It was just like, oh, this is magical. This is incredible. We can all have conversations about well, what's your style of yoga? What's this style? And what why do you think this style does this? And that, I mean, it was so nice. And it is nice having, you know, I have a lot of my friends or black yoga teachers.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

It's really nice having a lot of black folks in the spaces where we like, you know, live professionally. That is something that I really am just so grateful for. And and more and more black meditation teachers, yes, I just think is just really incredible too. And and not just from a social justice, you know, element, like there was always sort of, you know, and I think maybe that's be and maybe it was for me because I came in through, you know, teaching in jail. So there was always sort of the social justice element to my practice. I mean, and we know that yoga by its nature is social justice oriented, but just being able to talk to other black folks about yoga without having to have that justice lens on top of it. Like you and I know what's going on in the world. We don't need to have that conversation. I want to know, like, how are you getting up in the handstand? And just be able to have that conversation, just be able to have that black guest conversation and and not apologize for it was, I think, also a really a really beautiful thing about finding other black teachers in this space.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Yeah. I think this social justice lens, though, did bring me to a lot of the black yoga teachers, you know, that I have stayed in contact with. I think, you know, in my work with with veterans and folks who had complex PTSD and that kind of thing, I think inevitably you're you're having conversations around what led you to this, what, you know, talking about, um, I don't necessarily believe in generational curses. We're having conversations about intergenerational trauma and what brought you here and why did you join the army and and what happened while you were there and being able to use the tools of yoga and meditation to help people. Yeah. It has been really eye-opening for me and and just a gift. I mean, I've just been very grateful to to have been able to do this work and continue to do that work. That's really close, near and dear to my heart. When people come in, when I've even when I taught yoga at the beginning and I had people in larger bodies coming in, you know, more black women coming in, no one has ever asked if they could, you know, touch me and do and assist, and no one ever looked at me directly in the eye. Nobody all these stories that, you know, I honestly experienced as a new yoga student going to different studios around the Washington, D.C. metro area. I mean, there are more black um owned studios now, but when I years ago when I started, it was there were these microaggressions in this.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

That would really hurt me when I would when that would happen to me, because it would happen a lot with certain teachers. And I would go back to white teachers who put their hands all over me. And because I really appreciated being seen. Yeah. One of my favorite teachers to this day is a Jiva Mukti teacher because she, you know, Jeeva Mukti is whatever, that's a different conversation. She she was always like, no bullshit. And she saw everybody in the room, and she was an older teacher too. And I think that was that was like I I just loved her, no bullshit. And the first time was I was in a class of hers, and she gave me this assist, and she asked me if she could put her hands on me too, which people weren't doing then either. Like, can I help you? Can I help you do this? And it was just, it wasn't afraid, you know, it wasn't there was no hesitation, just hands on my body holding me in this shape. And I, from that day on, really one of my all-time favorite teachers, just for first seeing me. She was just amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

I love it. When you get a good teacher or good teachers, and then they leave, because I've had that happen.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Yeah, she became a nurse.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

She w she went to nursing school, I think like at 50 and and became a nurse. And I know she's probably one of the best nurses wherever she is because she was I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Yeah. I know she was. Like when you have that compassion and you already start off in that in in something that is contemplative, and then you go into that field, man, somebody, yeah, she's blessing people around her, which is amazing. But yeah, once you get that teacher, you have that to uh juxtapose, okay, this teacher was really horrible. Or this I didn't feel safe around this teacher. Um, and there there have been several instances where I didn't feel safe. I didn't go back. And then there's several instances where you know I had great teachers and they were white. They I had white teachers as a married couple, they're great. I still I went to their retreat in Italy. I've always felt safe around them, you know, and I felt good. You know, I didn't feel like, you know, when people were doing handstands and I was trying to get into a little baby, whatever, like headstand. Like I didn't feel I wasn't made to feel like you can't just pop up into this. Yes, we'll help you. Because they were skilled too. Yeah. So you have a you know, you're skilled in in in helping you reach whatever your potential is for that day. So maybe that that's not there for you that day. Maybe you know how it is when you do, when you come into a headstand, and sometimes you're like, I need the wall today.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Mm-hmm. And and I think too, what I appreciated, and I had to, when I was becoming a really deep into my yoga practice, I'm learning that I didn't have to go back to a teacher who I didn't like. Like there was a part of me sometimes I would go to the same teacher even if I didn't like them or even if I felt unseen. And then once I really started getting into a deeper spiritual practice, I was like, I don't need to, why am I going someplace where I don't feel seen? Or the opposite, right? Because it was either being ignored or this fawning because they were so surprised at the level of my practice. Like that also on the that that was the other end of the microaggression. Like, oh my gosh, your practice is so amazing. Yeah, but you didn't say that to the white girl over there with blonde hair. And you didn't because you assumed that her practice looks like that, and you assume that my practice would not look the way that it looks. So there were there were both of those those sides. And so just being with a teacher who would just see me was what I really started to look for. And as I grew in my own teaching, that was the kind of teacher that I wanted to be. Me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

I'm really attentive on listening and seeing, witnessing, which is is one of the myriad tenets of of yoga. Is like, how can I see this person? I can see myself in this person, how can I um there when they need to be there? And really, I see it as I'm facilitating, you know. I'm not absolutely like this, um this overarching, like so many yoga lineages that you and I know that are it's really like this guru kind of energy. Like, I'm not about that. I'm not about that. And I had people, students who really liked me, oh, this is my guru, whatever. I'm like, and I know guru means teacher. Like we know that's but I'm like, but in this society, I'm like, you don't have to call me that. I her teach, you know, she comes to my class, I teach it. I I have not, I will not, I refuse to put myself or allow someone else, whether they they're well-meaning or not, to put me on a pedestal because I don't have to be there. Because you're the pr you're the one that's practicing. It's your practice, it's it's you know how you show up. You know, it's absolutely so as a you know, as a teacher, I've never said I I check in on people, but if I'm coming in, if we're doing like shoulder stand, basic shoulder stand, and somebody's like, I don't want to, and they don't do it, I'm I just go in and check, fine. And you know, is there's ways to do that. There's ways to be caring, and there's ways to remember if when I was new coming to yoga, would you would I have wanted like all you have to do is remember that stuff and have compassion. And that will make you a good teacher. So you can have thousands of hours. How many hours do you have of yoga teaching or training do you have? You could have that, but if you don't have that compassion, and if you really don't know how to see people when they come in and they're kind, you know, then um and if you don't have your own practice, because I don't know how many times we've had to have that conversation, and I understand practice, my practice since I've been, you know, doing yoga for you know a few decades now, over a couple, you know, how am I showing up now in this menopause body? I don't need to do scorpion ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Okay. And that yeah, asana was such a big part of my practice before, but now my yoga is, you know, yoga is how I live, and it's not sort of what I do. And and I think I needed to to learn that, and that it wasn't about me as the teacher. And in in fact, it's never about me. Like teachers should say, like, oh, I create a safe space, and that's bullshit. There are no safe spaces, but like that because I need the secret.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

How do you say that's magic? That's I mean, that's something you can attempt to cultivate safety, brave, brave spaces, sure. Brave brave space, but what does it look like? Particularly if it's everybody coming in there. Now you can have a conversation about we can try our best to create safety for black people, you know, black women, black members of the LGBTQ plus community.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

And yes, and recognize, yes, and and recognize that safety doesn't mean comfortable, right? That that's not what I'm yeah, that's that's not what we mean. And that's not what we mean. I think for a lot of teachers, they equate safety with comfort. Comfortable. And and that is, I think, a Western thing. That's something that we do here in the United States. It's a very, you know, it's it's that individualism, it's that sense of white supremacy. I don't want to be uncomfortable because if I'm uncomfortable, I don't feel safe. And that's that's bullshit. But that's safety, not what we do. That's not the safety. Right. That's unfortunate. That is those are, I think though that's something I had to unlearn as well. Even when I was learning trauma-informed yoga, that I felt like a lot, I feel I still feel like a lot of trauma-informed yoga is around comfort and not around exploration and allowing students to find the safe space inside themselves. Because that's how you create safety. I am safe inside my body. And when I know when I need to leave a space or put down a boundary, that that is how I create safety. Because there, it's not safe anywhere. I'm I'm the safe place, right? I'm the one who takes care of me. That's what I want to cultivate for people here on our podcast. Like, you know, that's the community I want to cultivate. Like you may be in a conversation with somebody that you do not agree with and you do not like and you don't have to. And yet, if you know how to be safe inside your body, you could be in a room with that person and have a conversation if they are doing the same thing. If you understand how to regulate and you can co-regulate together and understand that community doesn't necessarily mean agreement.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

Right. That's the key piece there. And safety doesn't necessarily mean uniformity, and I'm not gonna address microaggression that is in the room. You know, because this came up in a couple of trauma training. You know, you and I have had been in several trauma trainings, and I remember one thing, everyone kept saying, This is safe, safe. What does safe mean? That you're comfortable? Because I certainly don't feel safe here. Mm-hmm. Somebody just said some shit, and I'm trying to regulate myself so I don't go down there and forget all the yoga practices I have and choke them, okay? Right. Because that's really what I want to do is go get in that person's face. Right. And so you're as a black woman, I'm regulating myself because we're always one or two in the in a in a sea of skinny white women. And trying to do all of that juggling, that's what's exhausting. Yeah. I'm juggling, I'm trying to regulate myself. At the same time, I'm like, okay, the respectability politics, do I wanna, I can't be seen as the angry black woman or all that. Now, in my 50s, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Yes, that I don't I am a happy member of the I don't care club now.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

I don't give a damn. Yeah. If, oh, you said this, did you mean? I'm like, I'll explain myself. No, I didn't mean this. Yes, I didn't mean this, but I I I was there in my 40s. I'm not even gonna lie. Like it's it's been a long, and I think actually helped me get there. The true tenets of yoga, the true tenants of like how am I my being? Mm-hmm. What makes well? How can I to the best of my ability stay well? And that doesn't, you know, I'm staying on top of my doctor's appointments and all that other stuff, but it's mostly day in and day out. What am I doing? Am I am I paying attention to, you know, any any musings around, oh, I don't feel so good today. What is that about? Right. I'm feeling sad today. Is that depression? Oh my god, am I in full-blown depression, or is it just I'm sad today? Right. Because I because a friend of mine is struggling or whatever, right? Um, and that we have the tools for that. And so yeah, that's what we're here. We want to obviously we have a between the two of us, like we won't even talk about like I don't even know how many sir, like we didn't even we haven't done the count, and I don't think we should do that because I think it would be really people should just know that we are that we're well versed in the wellness world.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

Yes. You know, we'll we'll put it on our bios on the landing page of of the podcast so you can see who we are. But um, I do think what we're going to bring to conversations and when we have guests on is is um is something that you might not have heard before because it is, I think, gonna be raw and gritty and real. And I think that's the whole point of you know, trying to get to a place where you can say that you're good even when you're not good because you're truly in touch with how you're feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

That's just the piece. That's the critical piece. Like knowing where you are, who you be, where on a scale of one to ten or whatever the scale is, how good you're doing. Mm-hmm. And what that looks like. And that's gonna vacillate day to day, month to month. It's gonna vacate hour to hour. Mm-hmm. You know? What do you want to leave people with before we go? I want to leave people with this one thing know your body better than anyone. You know your heart better than anyone, you know your spirit better than anyone, and nobody can tell you what that what that looks like. You know the best. And I think people, I I feel like you need to be reminded of that. You know, when you go to a doctor and you get a diagnosis and somebody says it's this, this, and this, and you're like, oh shit, the doctor said this. And it's like, but hold up. Yes, the doctor is educated and they know whatever that is in their field, and and and you should take that into consideration. You also are educated about your own body. You also know your body because you live in it. You also know it the best. Put the two to I mean that they can compliment each other, but no, go back into that. Make sure that that's the source. That's what I would leave people with.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

Okay, I like that. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

What would you leave?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

I think I think you said it. I don't I don't think I have anything to add to that right now. I I want to leave people with what you left them with today. That's great. Yeah. That's it. We'll be back again. And um I want you to to like this podcast, subscribe to us on YouTube. We'll see you next. We'll see you next time. Uh thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Yes.